On the passing of Ike Turner

Ike Turner is gone. Predictably, people can’t stop talking about That Movie and about Tina. One thing I keep hearing is that, though Ike was a great musician and pioneer, all people can talk about is his abusive nature and drug habit. What a shame that is, these voices say.

I am about to say something possibly controversial: is that a shame? Really?

People who knew Ike defend him by saying: “Haven’t you ever made a mistake?” Yeah, I have, lots of them. But if my mistakes caused pain, both physical and emotional, to someone else, I don’t expect people to forgive and forget or overlook them altogether if I don’t ever apologize.

Did Ike ever apologize? Did Ike ever admit that he was in the wrong and that, perhaps, beating his wife was really not a proper thing to do? I honestly don’t know the answer to that question. I do know that he wrote a book wherein he said “I never did that thing that was in the movie” but I don’t know if he ever admitted the spousal abuse and what, if any, amends he attempted to make to the victim of his attacks. (Why yes, I am taking Tina’s words as the truth.)

If he did admit what he did, make an apology, and other such things in that direction, then yeah, I think we can then focus on the positive aspects of his life. But if he has spent all these years denying what he did and possibly going on to do it to other people, then no. I don’t give a flying fuck how much good music he made in that case. I really don’t.

I am tired of people using the “But he was a great artist” line whenever someone who is, otherwise, a despicable human being, writes a song or a book or a poem that they like. I hate to break Godwin’s Law here, but even Hitler wrote some nice poetry and drew some pretty pictures (and he was nice to animals).

59 Responses

  1. Thank you for this post. So well put. I admit my first thought upon hearing of this death was uncharitable. He seemed like he had no regrets about being a terrible bastard.

  2. Apparently his memoir makes some distinction between “hitting” and “beating,” as in he admits to hitting Tina but says he never beat her.

    The twisted logic of the abuser…

  3. It was a wasted life- and that is always a tragedy.

  4. Thanks for this. I wasn’t too broken up about his death either.

  5. There is never an excuse for hitting someone else first, and making music is one of those excuses that are never enough. If someone hits in self-defense or to defend the helpless, ok. But, he never said he hit her back. He beat her and he denied that what he had done was that serious. I don’t care if you make music that causes the angels to weep, there is no excuse.

  6. a well worn saying comes to mind…

    ‘let he who is without sin cast the first stone’

    judgement is all too easy to pass and is a big problem in our society. is physical abuse any different to mental?

    I’ll be remembering the man for his music. if you want to hear some I’m laying down a week long musical tribute on my musical diary themusicologist.wordpress.com

  7. the musicologist wrote:

    >‘let he who is without sin cast the first stone’

    Hey, I’ve managed to be on this planet for 50+ years without hitting a woman, so I’m perfectly happy to cast stones at those who haven’t managed that simple task.

    >judgement is all too easy to pass and is a big >problem in our society

    Whereas I think a bigger problem in society is how often we don’t pass judgment on those who beat women, how we treat it as no big deal and let them get away with it.

    I see press nitwits asked Tina Turner for a comment. Her spokesperson said:

    “Tina is aware Ike passed away earlier today. She has not had any contact with him in 35 years. No further comment will be made.”

    Quite right, too. I mean Jeez, what were they expecting her to say?

  8. I have to admit I didn’t give a rat’s ass when I heard he’d passed. On the scale of human achievement, I believe being decent far outweighs any musical contribution he may have made. Since he failed miserably at the first, I don’t care about the second.

  9. If Tina hadn’t claimed her life and lived up to her amazing potential would anyone even remember his name?

  10. judgement is all too easy to pass and is a big problem in our society. is physical abuse any different to mental?

    Um…yes? I hesitate to weigh in on this question, at the risk of minimizing the experience of *actual* psychological abuse, but it sounds like you’re drawing a line from ‘being made aware of the fact that someone i liked had some seriously ugly qualities’ to ‘inappropriate judgment’ to ‘mental abuse’ to…beating somebody nearly to death or, in fact, killing somebody. The first couple of leaps are not insignificant, but the last one…

    Frankly, I wish I didn’t have to worry about celebrity death at all, because I don’t think it’s remotely possible to distill an entire life down into whatever narrative was presented or perceived, and it inevitably has to be oversimplified into a one pole or the other of the dichotomy so that it fits into nice sound byte explanations of why we need to care. I’ll never celebrate anyone’s death, no matter how despicable they are as an individual. As abw says, everybody has some kind of lovable (likeable?) feature on some level, but since I’m not holding the great cosmic scorecard that contains the list of things that tip someone over the 50% line from “evil” to “not evil and therefore beyond reproach”, I’m not sure how many points someone gets for “writes pretty songs” (though I’ll continue to hope, for the sake of my own sanity, that it’s not as many as one loses for “repeatedly assaults and progressively develops ways to control women over a period of years”).

  11. And let’s just differentiate between “making a mistake” and chronically, consistently, and cruelly abusing someone in a way that reinforces his own privileged place in the patriarchy relative to his wife.

    Here’s a mistake: “Oh, hell. I forgot my wife’s birthday. I suck.” Here’s an unforgivable scumbag: “I’m a controlling bastard who uses physical abuse to keep my wife in line.”

    What I don’t understand is why these people think that those of us who read his obit and thought “Scum” are somehow less capable of understanding that he made great music. Of course he did. So did Phil Spector. Woman-abusing creeps, both of them.

  12. Clearly, people who are so understanding of Ike Turner’s physical and emotional abuse of Tina
    clearly have never been stomped/humiliated by someone they love.

  13. I will deal with the last comment first. Hitler’s poems, if we can be sure that he actually wrote them, are not very good and thus go not aid much to this discussion. I don’t understand why it is so hard to talk about about his work and his sordid behavior. On the NPR News and Notes broadcast from December 13, 2007, Margina Christian talks with Farai Chideya about a recent interview with Ike Turner. While it does trying to give his life a positive spin and Margina makes on of those “Tina needed Ike” statements, we do get some answer to the apology question, maybe. He wrote Tina a letter in which describes his sorrow of causing her pain, but Margina does not know if even sent it. Ike Turner was a man with great voids as a human being, but ignoring the contributions of other does not solve any problems. This does not mean, as Christian citing Ike Turner, that we should “stop hold my hand [sic] to the fire because of things that happened in the past,” but the history of music is greater than this little putz and it should be complete on both is contribution and his great personal failings.

  14. If you want to listen to the interview of yourself, go to http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17212823.

  15. Quite simply, “stars” are treated different from the rest of us. People will always make excused for a guy like this just as they are now doing for Michael Vick.
    In the end, I think that he will be remembered more for his drug use and physical abuse rather than his music. Do you think that 99% of Americans remember one song that he wrote???
    And there is a big difference between making a mistake and a life of bad decisions that negatively impacted others.

  16. Thank you so much for this post. I’m a creative person with demons, and it’s a struggle to keep my head above water and not let my character deteriorate. The struggle is worth it, worth even losing my art, although I find that I create a different, perhaps better kind of art when I keep connected to others.

    People like Ike Turner (and all of the other creative jerks) are a cautionary tale, because this seems to be a problem in the creative community: indifference and mistreatment of others along with drug and alcohol abuse. The people who continue to excuse or minimize this behavior and claim that art is more important are a large part of the problem.

    I get sick when I hear stories of artists mistreating people. The stories are so common and they really make my skin crawl. I start to wonder if you can be a great artist and a good person (or at least average, so many seem to aim for below average character). I have to believe you can.

    Yes it is a shame that a life was wasted, but I cry more for those who never get a chance at life, starving in the deltas and deserts of the world, dying of easily treatable diseases, crying for mothers and fathers who are dead.

  17. Great post. As a survivor of intimate partner abuse it has been hard to hear the apologists making excuses for Ike Turner’s behavior.

    ‘let he who is without sin cast the first stone’ Well, let’s see…first of all I’m not a “he”…so that makes me exempt from this statement. Also, I have never systematically beaten and abused a woman or any other human being. Guess I’ll cast the first stone.

    I have no patience for abusers or their apologists, and rightfully so.

  18. Yep, as far as I can tell, he “apologized,” but he mostly apologized for cheating on her.

    I’m sure she appreciated that, Ike. A lot. Where you stuck your dick probably mattered SO MUCH MORE TO HER than getting punched in the face.

    His attitude was obviously the attitude of a person who didn’t have the moral courage to face the horrible things that he’d done and make amends for them. Fine. If I beat the shit out of someone for years on end, I don’t know that I’d ever be able to fess up to what I’d done, either. But that doesn’t mean that the rest of us have to ignore or excuse his behavior–in fact, that’s an excellent reason why we should draw attention to it and condemn it. If we take a page from his book and skip over the huge portion of his life where he was horrible to the person he supposedly loved the most, then we’re basically accepting his excuses, condoning his behavior, and saying that domestic violence is really just a footnote in someone’s life. Beat your wife? No bigee! The really important thing is that you made some great music!

    Um, not so much.

    Thank you so much for this post.

  19. The musicologist,

    #1 – Daomadan’s comment pretty much encapsulates how I feel about that sin/stone nonsense.

    #2 – Physical abuse and mental abuse are both bad. But I don’t think that thinking or speaking ill of someone because they repeatedly hit their spouse is mental abuse. Maybe spending so many years around Ike has warped your sense of what is and is not abuse. I suggest you then seek counseling.

    #3 – You go ahead and remember him however you like, it’s your right. It’s our right not to celebrate his life but be happy that there’s one less abuser in the world or feel sad that he wasted his life on drugs and abuse.

  20. I read today where Ike’s widow (girlfriend?) made a public plea for Tina to forgive Ike. Apparently, he’d done the “hard work” of forgiving himself. I find it hard to believe he did this “work” when he only half-assed acknowledged that he did anything wrong in the first place.

    As for the last and final Mrs. Ike Turner (or girlfriend)’ s plea…I think it was a tasteless grab for more media attention. She could have written a private letter to Tina.

  21. I don’t think she has any right to do even that. Why should Tina have to put up with some importunate stranger bringing up the trauma she endured and somehow suggesting that forgiving the slime who put her through that trauma is somehow the right moral choice? And furthermore, to suggest that she make that forgiveness public (because otherwise, how does she know that Tina hasn’t already forgiven him)? How much self-centered, self-righteousness does a person need to do that, to think that she has the right to do that to a woman who endured that kind of abuse?

  22. Veronica, you’re absolutely right–she has a lot of nerve saying anything to Tina, period. I was just saying that by doing it publicly, she was quite obviously going for the media attention. But definitely the whole idea is insane and inappropriate.

  23. Totally! He was a wife beater. They say this about Picasso, too. He was such a great artist, let’s overlook the fact that he put out cigarettes on wife/lover’s skin.

  24. Hear, hear!! The reward Ike got for his talent is that he made a LOT of money and will go down in history for being the first to do certain things. That’s enough. If he ALSO goes down in history for being a vicious, self-centered, mysogynistic, exploiter of Tina as a woman and as a major talent, then that’s on him. He gets credit for the first AND credit for the second. The door swings both ways. And even if he HAD apologized (which doesn’t seem to have been the case), it wouldn’t change what he did. Rest in peace? I doubt it.

  25. #1.nowhere in my post do I make excuses for Ike’s behaviour..how could I when it’s only his music that I KNOW about.
    #2.how many of you are passing judgement based on the film Tina? if so theres a piece of writing you may find interesting by Edward Bernays called ‘How The Media Moulds Your Mind’. It’s easy to make assumptions based on what is presented to us because then we can be controlled and manipulated at the drop of a headline.

    #3.PERSONALLY I could never raise my hand to a woman no matter what the circumstances so lets get that straight before anyone, (probably have anyway), passes judgement on me.

    #4.if you actually read my initial post and not just jump to conclusions you will see that I ASKED the question is physical abuse any different to mental. the only response to that was from purtek, although the comment continued with ‘sounds like your’e trying to say’. Purtek, I’m not trying to say anything…a question is not an answer.

    #5. theangryblackwoman you said “I don’t think that thinking or speaking ill about someone is mental abuse”
    I don’t understand that comment at all…is this about me or Ike? because if it’s about me that illustrates my point about making judgement on what you think you know rather than what you do know or do you think you know me because of two lines i wrote? mental abuse is very serious. in England, (my home), there have been a number of cases where verbal and mental abuse has led to schoolchildren taking their own lives so one is no better or worse than the other.

    As to the idea that Ike was only famous for his association with Tina whoever made that comment doesn’t know what they are talking about so no need to get into a debate on that.

    Finally thanks to the author for allowing me to express an opinion based on his work, which I know something about and not on his personal life about which I know nothing.

  26. #1.nowhere in my post do I make excuses for Ike’s behaviour..how could I when it’s only his music that I KNOW about.”

    You aren’t making excuses for his behavior, but you aren’t acknowledging what he did in the past. It’s not a black and white issue, you can’t simply decide to focus on his music and the good he did there and ignore the fact that he was a vicious abuser. It’s all shades of gray and you can discuss his music as well as who he was as a person, which wasn’t the most pleasant.

    “#2.how many of you are passing judgement based on the film Tina? if so theres a piece of writing you may find interesting by Edward Bernays called ‘How The Media Moulds Your Mind’. It’s easy to make assumptions based on what is presented to us because then we can be controlled and manipulated at the drop of a headline”

    Haven’t even seen the film. It is also disgusting that you are implying we are basing our judgments on Ike simply because “of a film” or media “molding our minds”. I know what Tina Turner has stated about her relationship with Ike and from my own experiences with intimate partner abuse I know damn well what she went through and that she is not lying.

    #4.if you actually read my initial post and not just jump to conclusions you will see that I ASKED the question is physical abuse any different to mental. the only response to that was from purtek, although the comment continued with ’sounds like your’e trying to say’. Purtek, I’m not trying to say anything…a question is not an answer.”

    If you truly want to know about the effects of physical and mental abuse then I suggest you start here: http://www.helpguide.org/mental/domestic_violence_abuse_types_signs_causes_effects.htm

    Or Google it. It’s not too difficult. In my experience, the physical abuse was easier to deal with than the mental abuse that was heaped on me through my abuser’s manipulation and mind games.

  27. “#3.PERSONALLY I could never raise my hand to a woman no matter what the circumstances so lets get that straight before anyone, (probably have anyway), passes judgement on me.”

    Passive aggressive much? We never passed any judgments on you with regards to this.

  28. Never saw the movie. I’ve read about her life in various places, including in Ronnie Spector’s autobiography.

    Don’t assume that your reliance on the movies reflects anybody else’s lack of understanding.

  29. Daomadan,

    #1. themusicologist is only concerned with music.take a look at the site and see for yourself. as for what I can and can’t say or do, I think i’ll be the one to decide.

    #2. it seems to me that all the comments here ARE about one aspect of his life no-one even mentions his music.

    #3 READ my post, i’m asking the question how many of you are passing judgement based on the film. I repeat
    A QUESTION IS NOT AN ANSWER, i’m not implying anything so don’t put words in my mouth.

    #4 how can i ‘know’ about abuse of any kind through reading about it? You have made it clear that you have suffered such abuse and I’m genuinely sorry to hear that.

    #5 how do you know that others who have read this debate haven’t passed judgement. which is why I wanted to express my own values..hopefully YOU haven’t.

    #6 as for ‘passive agressive’ is that a character assesment of me? I detect a hint of sarcasm in the addition of the word much !!!.

    finally, Veronica, it’s you who are making assumptions. otherwise you would appreciate that a question is a question, nothing more, nothing less. didn’t you know that’s what the funny looking symbol at the end of such a sentence represents.

  30. [...] by Jack Stephens on December 20, 2007 But the Angry Black Woman blogs: I am tired of people using the “But he was a great artist” line whenever someone who is, [...]

  31. [...] Thursday, December 20, 2007 Cross-posted from The Blog and the Bullet. But the Angry Black Woman blogs: I am tired of people using the “But he was a great artist” line whenever someone who is, [...]

  32. Emotional and verbal abuse is part of a continuum of abuse, musicologist. Abusers use whatever tools they can to control–and it often starts with emotional and verbal abuse, and culminates in physical abuse. Abusers don’t just punch you in the face one day after being perfectly nice and respectful.

  33. it seems to me that all the comments here ARE about one aspect of his life no-one even mentions his music.

    That’s down to your poor reading skills. I did, in my first comment.

    But, gee, do you think that just might be because this is a post ABOUT how his abuse of TT is being glossed over in other places? The abuse is the topic of the post. Why is it so upsetting to you that there might be a few places on the internet where the focus might be on how he treated her?

    i’m not implying anything so don’t put words in my mouth.

    Wrong. By asking the question, you are implying that you think it’s likely that commenters are passing judgment based on the movie–otherwise, you would not have oh-so-helpfully directed us to a source on how such things create opinions. Don’t be disingenuous–you absolutely implied this was the case. You were wrong. You don’t then get to backpedal, waving your hands and claiming that it was just a random question.

  34. #4 how can i ‘know’ about abuse of any kind through reading about it? You have made it clear that you have suffered such abuse and I’m genuinely sorry to hear that.

    I don’t need any “I’m sorry to hear that” from anyone. It isn’t my job to teach you about how I personally experienced abuse: physical, sexual, or psychological. I was offering a link as a way that you could at least read some definition of mental abuse and the cycle of abuse because many people do not even understand this aspect of intimate partner violence. And no, you won’t ever “know” what abuse is like until you experience it for yourself but you can at least read what others have to say on it and listen.

    Veronica has already eloquently stated what would have been my own response to your comment that you are not “implying anything” by mentioning the film and how we are passing our judgment.

    I’m glad your website focuses on music, but ABW wrote this post with regards to those in the media and elsewhere who are IGNORING what kind of person Ike was in favor of his music.

  35. I think themusicologist is saying that we should separate the art from the artist. In other words, Ike’s music is great, despite the fact that the artist was a despicable human being. If that is what the musicologist is saying, then I agree completely. I can enjoy Ike’s music even though I am disgusted by anyone who would abuse his spouse. However, as pointed out by Veronica, above, that point is not germane to the topic being discussed here. The topic here is that, when judging Ike as a human being, the spousal abuse should not be glossed over just because he made good music. If themusicologist would stick to the topic, I think even he would agree that Ike was not great as a human being.

  36. The angry black woman said that her only information about Ike’s abuse came from the movie Tina sanctioned. She acknowledged that she was making a conscious decision to believe Tina’s version of the events without any collaboration. I have no idea whether he apologized or if he beatTina, although that does seem to be the case. I think that’s wrong.

    However, it would have been better if more people would have acknowledged the choices they were making in deciding which version of events to believe when they made their comment. Yes, abuse is real and horrible. Yes, abusers lie about what they have done. But, that doesn’t mean that everybody who denies doing somehting is lying.

  37. But, that doesn’t mean that everybody who denies doing somehting is lying.

    Yes. Yes it does.

    Also:

    The angry black woman said that her only information about Ike’s abuse came from the movie Tina sanctioned.

    No she didn’t.

    She acknowledged that she was making a conscious decision to believe Tina’s version of the events without any collaboration.

    No, she didn’t: “I do know that he wrote a book wherein he said ‘I never did that thing that was in the movie’ but I don’t know if he ever admitted the spousal abuse and what, if any, amends he attempted to make to the victim of his attacks.”

    Question: Did you actually read anything before you posted?

  38. Actually, I read the book. I did mention the movie, yes. But that wasn’t the sole source of my knowledge.

    Even if it had been, the movie isn’t supposed to be fiction. It’s based on Tina’s non-fictional accounts of her life. And, I believe, more than one person who was around during that time backs her up (I read that in articles published around the time the book came out).

  39. As far as I know, Tina Turner is Bhuddist. Forgiveness is not a Buddhist concept, because the wrongs that somebody did to you are wrongs that they did to themselves and there is nothing that you can do about that. Actions have consequences. Buddhism has no concept of sin and therefore no concept of forgiveness.
    Christianity, as interpreted by somebody, is a sort of cheap laundry service for the soul: you say the magic word “sorry”, are forgiven by either God or your victim, ideally both, and poof! your act disappears. It really doesn’t work like that, not even for real saintly Christians who understand what sincerity of the soul is.
    Tina saved herself, and rather impressively. She owes a man that long ago in another life hurt her and then wasn’t even able to do something for himself exactly nothing.
    If indeed she is a Buddhist she doublessly will engage in cultivating compassion. Compassion is in part exercised by reflecting on people you loathe and on how they are like you, with wishes desires and pains. This is nothing like facilely affirming that what’s done is done and what’s past is past and all’s well now.

  40. P.S. I think the actual quote from Ike’s autobiography (from The Guardian’ obituary)is “There have been times when I punched [Tina] to the ground without thinking. But I never beat her” -

  41. Also, for real dude – there is no fucking physical abuse WITHOUT mental abuse being an inherent part of it. Your question is insulting and ignorant, and what’s worse is you seem to believe it’s genuinely thoughtful.

  42. interesting post.
    cant wait to read your blog after R. Kelly dies.

  43. judgement is all too easy to pass and is a big problem in our society. is physical abuse any different to mental?

    No. So, can those of us who’ve managed to avoid committing EITHER (at least on purpose and without apology) then cast stones? Thanks!

    *picks up stone*

  44. I have notice that the “he’s a great artist” excuse only applied to men. if a woman is said to be a “bitch”, no one cares how brilliant she is!

  45. I think it’s not only hypocritical but also racist to pass judgement on Ike Turner and to compare him to Hitler of all people WTF?!! That goes TRIPLE for Micheal Vick it really gets me how you whiny,fake bitches always bemoan racism yet contribute to it your damn selves. And spare me the comparisons to white males we all know DAMN WELL that the attitude in this country changes the minute the race does. I read someone mention Phil Spector what bullshit I haven’t heard on e fucking PEEP from the media about that asshole even though he was accused of murder. And of a beautiful,blonde-haired,blue-eyed white woman where’s all the goddamn ‘outrage’ now?!! Why isn’t the media talking about THAT case all day every day 24/7 morning,noon, and night from midnight to daylight and ALL times in between. Furthermore there are WHITE male celebrities who are guilty as all sin of beating their wives like Tommy Lee,Mickey Rourke,Danny Sullivan, and Ozzy Osbourne who choked his wife until she almost died. I NEVER hear anbody in this country vilify them well god forbid seeing how it’s such a forbidden ‘sacrilege’ and all are we going to hear anything about them when they die?!! Hell NO!! Especially since none of you fake ass assholes have the balls to say it now and don’t care that they still get movie deals and reality shows or rapist Marv Pervert who got his job at NBC back where was all the holier thaness then bitches?!! If you’re not part of the solution then you are part of the problem and you cry racism all the damn time but are ALL too happy to jump on the media bullshit bandwagon EVERY time there is a high-tech lynching. No wonder we’re at the bottom of the fucking food chain!!

  46. Good points, LMary, on that last post. There has always been this instant demonizing of a black person caught doing anything wrong by the media, while many non black offenders/criminals are still allowed to be icons and pillars of their communities. And that won’t ever change, IMO.

  47. I didn’t see the ABW or anyone else here suggest that a wife beater would be less reprehensible if he were white. And, even if you acknowledge that white men beat their wives too, it doen’t make Ike any less a low-life. A man who beats his wife is a low form of human being, whether he be white, black, brown, or green. It’s not racist to say that.

  48. Black Fitness Queen, is that your photo on your blog site? Hot Damn!

    Sorry, ABW. This won’t happen again.

  49. It seems to me that the solution to that disparity is to put pressure on the mainstream media to do a better job of vilifying white men who beat their wives. I do my bit, but I’m not holding my breath: the combination of white privilege and male privilege is quite a thing.

  50. Lmary,

    I have a problem, not with the core of your argument*, but with where and why you’re making it. You’ve pointed out that white artists who beat their wives get special treatment compared to black artists who do the same. You’re right to point it out; it’s true. This suggests one of two solutions: either give black artists the same special treatment, or express the same outrage when white artists kick the bucket and are given the “but he was a great artist” treatment.

    Hopefully you see the problem with trying to give black artists special treatment. If it’s racist to treat abusive black men differently, it’s also pretty damn racist to ignore the suffering of the (usually) black women they beat.

    So let’s run with calling the same attention to white abusers. I agree; we should. But since you’re saying this on a site run by a black feminist, who has an extensive record of griping about abusers of any race, I’m a little confused. The people who are giving the white artists a free pass are the mainstream media, or racist and sexist bloggers. So why aren’t you posting this rant on one of those sites?

    See, the way I see it, there’s also racism (and sexism) involved in the knee-jerk way some people love to accuse black women of racism when they raise criticisms of black men. Too often, the accusation of racism gets used as a tactic to silence those women, even if their criticism is justified.

    Now, I’m aware that black people (male or female) are perfectly capable of internalizing racism. But not all criticism represents self-hatred; some of it represents self-love. Black people who love themselves and want their people to progress must offer criticism, especially when they see their people doing stupid shit, because how else will things get better? Keeping our dirty laundry hidden hasn’t worked up to now, so clearly we have to try something different. Frankly, it’s more problematic to insist that black people not examine themselves critically; after enduring generations of racism, the only way we can purge ourselves of this crap is to talk about it. (Black Fitness Queen, it’ll change if we stop accepting it, and work to make it change. Plain and simple.)

    There’s a wide, not thin, line between racist and antiracist criticism. When a person has a history of positive activism to judge, as ABW does, the difference should be obvious. If you can’t tell, and you honestly think that ranting at ABW is more productive than ranting at NBC, or on some other site that has not proven itself antiracist… then I have to wonder who has truly internalized some racism here.

    *I have a serious problem with your name-calling. I’m not sure who you’re ranting at — you’re a little incoherent here — but please remember that ad-hominem attacks aren’t allowed. This is your only warning.

  51. If you must know yes I do send e-mails to several different mainstream media outlets letting them know I don’t like how they operate. And yes my point was if we are going to demonize black males then white males should get it too. I feel there is a worship of white celebrites that borders on blind devotion and that’s not acceptable ESPECIALLY

  52. Sorry I accidentally clicked the comment button but what I was saying is when they are very quick to attack black celebrities. Bottom line is the media is very selective and biased in who they criticze and that shouldn’t be tolerated. I’ll give you a perfect example a poem by my hero Suheir Hummad on “Def Poets” where she was reminding this country that white males didn’t feel the sting of hatred and generalizing after Timothy Mcveigh killed all those people. Now was she defending the terrorists of Sept. 11, no she wasn’t BUT she was pissed off about the racially motivated double standard which is what I’m doing. I’m not defending Ike Turner but why is he being demonized especially by the very same white media who turn a blind eye and deaf ear when it’s one of THEIR own. Maybe white people need to start airing their ‘dirty laundry’ in public more often and vilifying their own then I wouldn’t complain.

  53. Sorry about the language you’re right miss ABW has been very clear on whose side she’s on I just don’t like hypocrisy especially when there’s racism motivating it. And I have another example over holiday week-end a white former baseball player named Jim Leyritz was driving drunk and killed a young black female. Not only has the MSM completely ignored this story but that bleep-bleep only had to pay 11,000 dollars bail are you kidding me?!! He killed this woman doing a stupid,reckless act and he only has to spend the equivalent of the price of an SUV to get out of prison that’s sickening.

  54. **note: apparently the name attached to these comments was not actually the name of the person who posted them. After an email conversation with the person who was being impersonated, I have decided to remove her name since she did not make the comments. I’m leaving the text intact only because people responded.

    First, I would like to say that I do not consent to physical or Verbal abuse inflicted upon anyone! I would like to say that I come from a God fearing Mother of whom taught meto be a lady and not a punching bag! When a friend of mine asked me to work for her boss Ike Turner I told her hell NO!
    She said Do not judge him before you meet him, he is not whopeople think he is; I said okay I want to see for myself and Idid just that and in the words of my mother she always said never judge a book by its cover, so I went in with and open mind and I must say I was truly impressed! Ike was the sweetest “little man” I have ever had the pleasure of knowing” I
    couldn’t believe that he was the same man that was depicted in the movie? That was until we had our first argument!! I said to myself, damn he’s Bipolar! Did I bow down to him? Hell no I let him have it and a few minutes later, he appologized I Said Mr. Turner I am your Assistant and I am not Tina! So do not
    talk to me like that ever again! From then on I learned that Ike was sexually abused by two neighborhood women from the age of 6 to 13 and he never received therapy for it! He HAS apologized for hurting Tina and he has cried many nights because of the pain that he has caused will he ever be forgiven? Maybe never but for the record I will always cherish the good side of Ike Turner, the Ike that fed
    clothed and paid strangers rent!

  55. **note: apparently the name attached to these comments was not actually the name of the person who posted them. After an email conversation with the person who was being impersonated, I have decided to remove her name since she did not make the comments. I’m leaving the text intact only because people responded.

    For all of us so called holy Black Folks…May I ask everyone a question? What have the church taught us
    about forgiving? Do we practice it ?…hmmm when I sin I ask the Lord for forgiveness. Should we forget, no! Ozzy Osborne wife was abused by him he’s a White Rock Star for those of you who don’t know but does it make him better than Ike? It wasn’t as publicized as Ike and Tina. Did Ike pay for his sin? Hell Yes he was destroyed in the United Staes he couldn’t make a dollar in the States and he was treated like shit! He asked for it because he put it out there but does that make him the devil? He had more goodness in him than bad but you would never know it unless you were to meet him and to meet him was to love him-

  56. Firstly, I could barely make out anything that you stated because it’s a grouping of run-on sentences and grammatical errors, so forgive me if I get your stance wrong.

    With that said – good people, don’t BEAT their WIVES. You may have found him to be a wonderful person – good for you. The fact still remains that he was abusive and put Tina Turner through intolerable conditions.

    Should I really care that he was abused, so as a result, that makes it okay? Hardly. It is NEVER okay to abuse a woman because of what happened to you in the past.

    No one here is implying that he’s the devil. At all. But what we are saying is that he should be remembered as being someone who had some serious mental problems and beat his wife, and that musical contributions pale in comparison to having any sort of humanity.

  57. On the subject of forgiveness, I point you upthread to Anna’s comment.

  58. **note: apparently the name attached to these comments was not actually the name of the person who posted them. After an email conversation with the person who was being impersonated, I have decided to remove her name since she did not make the comments. I’m leaving the text intact only because people responded.

    Sorry if you got my stance wrong I would not pretend that English is one of my best subjects (smile) I appreciate your comment and I totally understand what you were saying I want to say once again that I do not consent to domestic violence at all I was not trying to paint a pretty picture of Ike; however, I experienced a different side of Ike the one that was reformed. Moreover, his childhood did cater to his adulthood, like a majority of minority’s we do not receive therapy for our problems our pride enables us to simply sweep it under the rug! I met and experienced the positive side of Ike and I have learned that he was a troubled man with a heart of gold and I just wanted people to know more about the goodness that he possessed”.

  59. Well, angry black woman-you know what. He IS BOTH a musical innovator and head-beater-that *my* take! It is what it is because to paraphrase the saying “it is a thin line between genius and madness!” History is proof of that! My take is this, do not down play the abuse but don’t overlook the creativity, genius.and DEFINATELY do not downplay the creativity, genius-but don’t overlook the abuse. Simple as that as far as it goes with me.Folks in both camps-especially the pro-supporters of whoever theabusive genius is/was especially-needs to acknowledge that their role models had serious flaws that were as noticeable as their genius-and this goes for Ray Charles, R.KELLY, Beethoven, Miles Davis, and Ike Turner. I guess I am trying to say that the opposition *is* right about folks overlooking Ike’s impact on rock-n-roll which is so underrated since it was so important-*BUT*- like you-*I DO * feel that people try to cut abusive, flawed famous artistic geniuses that *they like* too much slack. They give these folks a pass that they would not an ordinary Joe for the *same* thing.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 144 other followers

%d bloggers like this: